In this episode of the Creative Myth, we discuss the powerful and often misunderstood phenomenon of procrastination. It's everywhere, and in all societies, probably since some early hominid decided not to give their cave a cleanout "just now". So what can we do to make it less impactful in our modern lives? And is there something we can do as creatives to harness the 'ancient' power of procrastinating? Spoilers... There is!
In this episode of the Creative Myth, we discuss the powerful and often misunderstood phenomenon of procrastination. It's everywhere, and in all societies, probably since some early hominid decided not to give their cave a cleanout "just now". So what can we do to make it less impactful in our modern lives? And is there something we can do as creatives to harness the 'ancient' power of procrastinating? Spoilers... There is!
Hello beautiful people and welcome to the creative myth, the podcast that attempts to inspire by unfolding breaking down and distilling that mythical force of nature known as creativity. Our goal is to bust the myth that creativity is the birthright of the few. In each biweekly episode, we find a new self confessed creative and strike up a dialogue. Otherwise said dinner and I sit down and discuss a topic that has something to do with creativity, and how it relates to our roles as photographers, artists, adventurers, and parents. We track down some of the most creative creatives out there and find out just what creativity means to them, what they do to encourage it in their lives, and how you might channel it into your passions. But who is we? We are such a blessing and Ben lane, wife and husband, Indian and kiwi adventure photographers, international Roma's and curious minds, you might know us as the medic lovers of adventure tended photography, and if not, you can follow our adventures over on Instagram at Turner photography and on our web page turner photography.com. Of course, don't forget to check out the creative myth on Instagram while you're there. And if this podcast tickles your earholes in all the right places. Please help us out by leaving a review on whatever platform you're absorbing this on.
Sirjana Singh:All right, so we're going to talk about procrastination today. I think it is something that we all relate with something that we've all gone through a bout of procrastination once in our lifetime at
Unknown:least must have right.
Sirjana Singh:Yeah, I think some go through it.
Unknown:I know there are some. What do you call it? What is what's an anti procrastinator? Is it an anti Christian?
Sirjana Singh:I definitely am an anti destinada. But, um, but some of us are pro had procrastination.
Unknown:Yes, that's right. Yeah. Good luck, Jack.
Sirjana Singh:Who's that? Dovin
Unknown:Yahweh. Okay, all right. The two of us I am pretty good at pro crass donating
Sirjana Singh:and I'm very good at anti Christian hating. But either of those options pro or anti take you away from the present. take you away from where you are right now living doing creating. So let's dive deep into procrastination and see what we find out through our discussion. And maybe we can hit some points that can be of help for you guys listening from your living room, your car, your wherever we are right there with you.
Unknown:Yeah, you're creating spot.
Sirjana Singh:Yep, let's do it. Okay, so let's start from the beginning. Oh, take us there. What a redundant thing to say though. Let's start from the beginning.
Unknown:It's like it's always in the last place. You look.
Sirjana Singh:Yeah, but even more redundant than that. Yeah, no, I talked the redundancy charts. So procrastinate comes from the Latin suffix Pro, which is forward and crustiness which means belonging to tomorrow, right. And so together it means deferred till the morning,
Unknown:when all about that, yeah, get all 3am deadlines.
Sirjana Singh:And Webster Dictionary defines it as a transitive verb. And what it means is to pull it off intentionally and habitually.
Unknown:Hmm. Hmm. Interesting. I never thought it was particularly intentional.
Sirjana Singh:Yeah. Because you are saying no, to doing something. And instead, you're doing something else?
Unknown:Because I always thought you were just not doing the other thing, which was supposed to be the intention.
Sirjana Singh:Yeah, yeah. And you're intentionally not
Unknown:doing it. Yeah. Okay, cool. Take some responsibility,
Sirjana Singh:and doing it over and over and over again, can become sort of addictive. Yeah. They said habitual way. Yeah, it becomes, because look at it this way. The limbic system, right? One of the oldest and most dominant portions of the brain is on automatic, right, our amygdala, which is part of the limbic system is our fear centre. And it is quick to take a perceived threat on our well being or that you know, that creeping anxiety that comes in a picture and shuts it off like oh, oh, you don't you don't want to do these emails right now you don't this you do this instead?
Unknown:So it's the the flight part of flight fight freeze. Yes, exactly.
Sirjana Singh:So it just tells us to No, you No, no, no, you don't want to do that. Do that instead.
Unknown:So we've been told by our slightly above the lizard brain, it's we yeah, we should be running away from this idea. Juicing.
Sirjana Singh:I see what you're right. We
Unknown:have coming up. Listen,
Sirjana Singh:I see what you're trying to do. You're trying to blame biology?
Unknown:Oh, no. I'm starting to think that maybe Webster's dictionary is. I mean, we It's intentional correct, but what if you're slightly above lizard brain is telling you to do it. Listen We are you're right
Sirjana Singh:we are hardwired to be have a hardwired tendency to prioritise short term needs ahead of long term ones. And in since when our amygdala is telling us to not indulge in the task at hand, it is making us indulge in that immediate mood repair, you're not wrong. Our biology is partly at
Unknown:fault, it is grin on my face, which is why
Sirjana Singh:I must take a side note and mention here that if you are one of those people who procrastinate on the daily and then really punish yourself for it, and have the really negative self talk around it, you owe me you should get yourself a little break. Because no, because procrastination is an emotion regulation problem, you know, you procrastinate because there are negative emotions associated with the task and you want to avoid them, right? Avoiding is never a good strategy. No. So when we cannot manage negative emotion associated with the task at hand, via Lloyd, it's an emotion regulation problem, you see, but self blame the thoughts we have about procrastination, you know, the distress the stress can exacerbate and can contribute to further procrastination because we feel more you about the thing about the thing that we have to do. And then what does our amygdala do want us to not feel you and take us somewhere else. So the cycle is endless and keeps continuing? I would
Unknown:say it's not endless. It definitely just keeps getting worse and worse until one day you finally just end up in a heap in the corner. That's the that's the final
Sirjana Singh:episode on green dock
Unknown:project, not finish creativity, not realise.
Sirjana Singh:Yeah, this episode got really dark really quick. But what I want to say your question was that is it then our fault if it is, is it really genuinely intentional, if amygdala our our limbic system is making us do it? Listen, we also have prefrontal cortex, it is a newer part of our brain. It's weaker, but it's still there. It's not automatic. So it's not immediately going to tell you like, like your amygdala, our limbic system says, up stop, you can stop it, you will have to work on it, right? So you will have to set intentions to actually do the task at hand and do it better and not stress yourself or your relationship or whichever area of your life you're procrastinating. You will have to set intentions to not procrastinate in those areas of your life. But it can be done. Right. So
Unknown:he's saying you can override Yeah, your biology using our big, Lumpy brains. Yeah. Because that's also part of our biology. Yeah. Okay. So but what about us a DD is out there, you know, with the old prefrontal cortex.
Sirjana Singh:I'm not an expert with DD in ADHD, right. I do understand that people with ADHD have poor emotion regulation. However, understanding how our brain works, understanding how we can set intentions, and how we can set goals in life is something that we should all learn, regardless of, if we are neurodivergent belong to a neurodivergent group or, you know, yeah,
Unknown:I mean, yeah, give it your damnedest. Yes, yeah, for sure.
Sirjana Singh:So procrastination is also derived from ancient Greek word, which is a Rusia. I'm probably butchering it.
Unknown:I'm sure you nailed it. Before,
Sirjana Singh:aka ra s IA, right? And it means doing something against our better judgement. So when we are giving more weight to short term gain over long term benefit, or we have listened to this podcast understood that our amygdala is trying to, you know, make us tell us to pack her off, ya know, and away from here. Yeah, but amygdala is trying to visualise trying to say, Hey, do this mood enhancing thing rather than that other thing? We need to take better decisions around it because like I mentioned before, prefrontal cortex is not automatic. We will have to put action in place to make sure we can override the amygdala or or help or not let our amygdala be hijacked, essentially,
Unknown:right. Okay. So you're saying that, so the amygdala is when you say automatic, you mean that that's pretty much just doing its own thing. But we can
Sirjana Singh:amygdala It could be a to explain, you know, if you're, it's a flame burning, and you put your hand on it, it makes level make you move your hand. Exactly right. So even if though, even if, even if it is telling us that listen, this task at hand is bringing anxiety, or it's creating stress,
Unknown:you can still choose to burn your finger in a candle. Right? That's where you're getting it. Yeah.
Sirjana Singh:That's not the advice that I want to give no, no, no,
Unknown:but what I'm saying is that it's showing that the amygdala is indeed semi automatic.
Sirjana Singh:No, listen, it is automatic. Basically, what I'm saying is procrastination is the battle between the limbic system, which is automatic, and prefrontal cortex, which you have to power to get through and make better decisions. Okay, so let's play this game where I tell you why I procrastinate. And you tell me why you procrastinate. And then somebody who's listening to this podcast can either relate to it, or completely be repelled by it.
Unknown:Procrastination buddies? Yes.
Sirjana Singh:Okay, so why do you procrastinate, Ben?
Unknown:Alright, so I am the, the old tried and true, I believe that I am a little bit anxious or a little bit stressed about doing a particular thing. And I feel like not doing it is going to make me feel better.
Sirjana Singh:Is that the result of what you're going to do? That's giving you anxiety? I
Unknown:think so. Okay. Oftentimes, like the video I'm editing at the moment. I feel like I could do better. But I don't know how I could do better. And so I think by pushing it off, maybe I will come up with something better still. But that's, yeah, I'm basically running away from the fact that I don't like, like what I'm doing at this point, from a creative project standpoint, do you know?
Sirjana Singh:Okay, so my gosh, you have, I'm going to go over why I procrastinate. But I have to tell you this, that this amazing actor, artist, and D. Smith, and she's an amazing playwright, an artist. She's also an educator. And she says, the main fuel for procrastination is thought, sometimes procrastination of bounce, because you really don't have a clear idea of what you're trying to do and where it's going. And that's exactly what you're describing, right? Where you're like, I, I, you want to do something, but you're not sure. And it's just making you feel stressed. I think,
Unknown:yeah, there's a myriad of, like, ways that it could go. Right, exactly. Like I want to find the best way to do it. And yeah, it's that pressure, that, that I'm putting on myself creatively that I think leads to this,
Sirjana Singh:and something that helps me in the given scenario, and probably, that's what she's mentioning here. She says, then the exercise of visualising what you're trying to do, and it's not just like imagining what the video would look like, in the end, but visualising what who this video is for, what is it trying to achieve, and what you want to do with the said task at hand. And what your goal is, can be very helpful. So it's basically, rather than thinking of this video in a very abstract way, it is thinking of this video in a very concise way, and figuring out what you're trying to achieve with that video. Because sometimes we assign personal values to the things we do, right? Absolutely. And then they become larger than life tasks. You know, there are some podcast episodes where we have recorded and re recorded and re recorded because we're like, No, I think I can do better. And just like keep going and they never got released because we we assigned personal value to those podcasts rather than getting the ideas out. Whereas we realised when we got drunk later.
Unknown:Welcome. Why didn't we just do that? Yeah,
Sirjana Singh:or that the idea. The reason behind doing this podcast is not to make someone think that we are cool. The idea is to actually propagate the idea that creativity is not a birthright of the few. Absolutely. And discuss ideas that come in the realm of creativity. And then when we put that back into the focus, and understood and visualise where we wanted to go, things became
Unknown:easier. Yeah, it was totally about that and getting people to recognise the work cool.
Sirjana Singh:thing. See, if we keep thinking that we will keep re recording episodes, though. Make This Episode The one No,
Unknown:no, I thought I absolutely loved my zingers.
Sirjana Singh:The idea is that visualising why we are doing what we are doing. And really being clear about who that task is for and why we're doing that task sometimes really help us narrow that energy, rather than going haywire without anxiety. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah,
Unknown:I think we might be touching on is the idea of IDEA doubt versus self doubt. Because I know that I have a lot of self doubt. But if you had doubt in your ideas, I think that's what entity Smith was alluding to was more of an idea doubt like a doubt in your creative ideas. So that's like a positive thing. I think you can build on that. But if you have a self doubt, where you're doubting your internal abilities, then that's going to be paralysing. So I think one way to move forward from a procrastinated spot. Hmm. Makes sense. Yeah. Is to try and shift that from like, I can't do this. I'm not good enough. Maybe this is above me, too. This idea sucks. Maybe I need a new idea. Do you know that might be a great way to move forward from wherever it is? You're stuck in your running from your little amygdalas?
Sirjana Singh:Yeah, and or Picasso mentioned it, when he says to know what you're going to draw, you have to begin drawing. So you
Unknown:you read widely for this episode. Out of the car, so quick, sorry, say that again,
Sirjana Singh:to know what you're going to draw, right? You have to begin drawing in because you talked about idea, doubt or self doubt. Sometimes to discern where you're sitting at, you need to start the task and then figure out what is stopping you. Here's the reason why I procrastinate. I have self doubts. So one of the things and I can only think about one thing that I procrastinate on that I'm cleaning, okay, so
Unknown:I don't know never doing its thing is procrastination.
Sirjana Singh:That's a good thing. But I procrastinate replying to emails a lot. Thank God, you're there. But I procrastinate a lot. And one of the reasons actually, the only reason I procrastinate is because I worry about my English, and how I'm going to sound when it's all written. And I cannot take it back. No maxis. It's all written. So in in the beginning, I used to make sure that I would leave all the emails in draft, and then you would read them and send them. And then I started doing them myself just a little bit late. And now, I don't know somewhere down the line. Things should have gotten better with practice. But they've actually become worse. I have again, started doubting how I sound. And why a doubt that in my head is that I think I'm an owner of a business, actually couple of businesses. And when people receive my emails, they're going to think she can't even write an email without grammatical errors. It just makes me feel yucky inside. So
Unknown:avoid it. You know what? every email you send, you should also include a copy and Punjabi. And one more in Hindi No, but
Sirjana Singh:when I talk about it, it all makes sense that it is not about the idea. It is the self doubt that is yeah, that is stopping me. And there is no way of overcoming it, then to actually do it.
Unknown:I mean, you also you're gonna want to get some positive feedback. True. Yeah. You're gonna want a friend to have a look at it and be like, Oh, this is actually pretty good. That is true. Yeah. Oh, the top tip we just stumbled into. Yeah, no, having
Sirjana Singh:buddies. Procrastination buddies that can you know you can because that works for us, right? we procrastinate in completely different areas of our life. And we can balance out each other because the things you procrastinate about, I find them ridiculously easy. And the things I procrastinate about, like emails, you're like, what, even? And doing dishes? You're so good at it. Keep do it forever. Yeah.
Unknown:You're welcome. During the research for this episode, I came across a guy called Adam Grant. He's a professor of management and psychology at the Wharton School. And he's done this cool TED talk. I listened to it felt very smart. And I didn't read the blog. I was like, oh, there's a TED Talk. spent seven minutes learning all about this new type of procrastination. Okay, so they've done some studies and they've figured out that there's a way to kind of honestly hack, I want to say hack procrastination. So if we take ordinary good old procrastination and we add an active in front of it, then we get a whole new thing.
Sirjana Singh:So is there a passive and active procrastination? You're
Unknown:onto it. Yeah. So passive procrastination is what we've been talking about, right? This is the one that your amygdala picks up and runs from, and you just stick in the same old cycle, right? The idea behind active procrastination is that you can hack it a little bit by, okay example, if you're in school, and you're given some homework, typically, what a procrastinator would do is take that homework, stick it in a bag, and then when the teacher reminds them the day before it's due, they'll pull it out again and start cracking on it. What you need to do as an active procrastinator is to look at that assignment first, and then shove it in your bag. It's as simple as that. So you can even make a start on it if you're feeling really up to it. But the idea is that you do that. And then you leave it and procrastinate as you always did. So that then you then have the pressure of your deadline coming up, you can jump onto this project. And you're likely to come up with something that's a little bit more creative. Because that time that you've had, but it just mulling in the back of your brain, even while you're out playing video games, or what are we doing high school?
Sirjana Singh:Fun things? Fun things? Yeah.
Unknown:And then you come back and you have that pressure of the deadline and you get busy doing what you need to do. Whatever it is that you need to do to hit that deadline. Right. But because you've had the stuff mulling in the back of your brain, yeah, you're more likely to come up with something that's newer, creative idea that you wouldn't have otherwise done under just the ordinary anxiety ridden pressure of having to hit that deadline.
Sirjana Singh:Yeah, okay, that makes really good sense. And I like that strategy. But don't you feel that they have misused the word procrastination, they could have just said, a hack for overcoming procrastination?
Unknown:No, see, this is where the marketing is really smart. Yeah, because if you're a procrastinator, all you have to do is stick an extra word in front of now you can call yourself an active procrastinator, which actually sounds pretty darn cool. I think it does. Yeah, I want to be an active procrastinator. How about you? I am, yeah, yeah. They know what they're talking about.
Sirjana Singh:Okay, at some point, we have to do a podcast about the history of the word procrastination, and how it took such an important seat in our culture. Because in 16th century, it became part of our lexicon, right, the word procrastination began appearing in English. This is a time when a lot of Latin words and French words were flooding English language, did they why, but it took a whole new meaning when Christianity took the word and used it as something that was going to define your values as a person.
Unknown:Okay, spoilers. I want to tell you a little bit what I Yeah, okay. Okay, so
Sirjana Singh:Christians use the term to remind sinners, that postponing the repentance of one's wicked ways, may lead to damnation. Yes, heavy stuff. I know, we're going to discuss a lot about how or why
Unknown:more, but how do you? What is procrastination mean? In your culture? Do you guys use the same word?
Sirjana Singh:It is actually a very interesting thing that you're saying. You know, a lot of languages around the world don't have the word procrastination. And they take it from English. That took it from obviously Latin, but I was reading somewhere and I could be completely wrong. But I think Japanese doesn't have the word for procrastination. Interesting. Yeah. So there's this whole
Unknown:Yeah, I'm fascinated. Yeah, this whole
Sirjana Singh:new episode that we need to do about the history of procrastination, because it is amazing why in certain cultures, that is a word and why it isn't. Oh, no, no, it was not Japanese. It's Russian, Russian. Okay. So in Russia, they don't have it, but they have oblem of.
Unknown:Right, right. Right. They have this amazing his character was named after a word. No, no. Okay. So you're referring to the character?
Sirjana Singh:No, but they have the character of the movie. So you can be you can be Oh, blow mobian Yeah, but they I think if I am not wrong, they don't have a word for procrastination. So there are cultures that don't have a word for it. And they have too long winded Lee explain this thing because it's now a global phenomenon.
Unknown:Person's amygdala has backed up and started running in the other direction.
Sirjana Singh:Because think about it, if Christianity thought of it as something that can result in damnation, and then what came next industrial revolution. An industrial revolution wants things done at the right time, because it wants goods to be delivered at the right time and you as a worker should not have any rights. are free time. Then the mixture of that. How important this word? God.
Unknown:Alright spoilers are bound. I really looking forward to actually yeah, I think next time around I'll just sort of sit back and listen to Yak.
Sirjana Singh:It's It's so interesting. I had to stop reading and researching because I was like, This is not a 20 minute episode.
Unknown:When did you start? Was it 5am? This morning? It was like before we record,
Sirjana Singh:I think my he woke up for his third feed. Yeah, yeah, that's when it stopped. Now that we have discussed what procrastination is how personally procrastination affects our work, and how it's such an important word, in our culture in our history. I think an important thing to discuss here is that procrastination does not only involve productive work, so you can procrastinate from life, you can get actually busy doing work, you can excuse yourself from your family and get busy doing work and procrastinate from your family life. It's an really important thing that we should mention, because I feel that a lot of people carry a shame around procrastination, because they think that just because they're not productive, and I'm doing air quotes here. They're not productive human beings in the current market or the current economy. That that is more shameful than being the left bending the other version that I talked about, which is not being present,
Unknown:because you're throwing yourself into your work your economy.
Sirjana Singh:Yeah, exactly into your work. So Seneca said, Live immediately what he meant when he said that is that delaying something is not right. Hurrying something is not right. Being in the present, and dealing with the task at hand, if that is being a parent at that moment, if that is being somebody who has had to do an admin work, or if it's something that requires you to be a creative person right now, doing what is the task at hand is really important.
Unknown:Right? So there's a time for everything. Exactly. And it's no,
Sirjana Singh:absolutely, there's another chord. And it says how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. So this is Seneca No, no, it's just a quote.
Unknown:I was gonna say it's how's it rather modern bike? Yeah,
Sirjana Singh:how we spend I think it's any Dillard. But how we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our life shines a light on how productivity can be used as a tool for procrastination.
Unknown:So how do we spend all this around to be more creative?
Sirjana Singh:Being mindful, so let's go back to amygdala and prefrontal cortex. When we said that procrastination is a bad battle between amygdala and prefrontal cortex, one of the tools that we can give prefrontal cortex to do better and when it's fight against amygdala is practising mindfulness. And being mindful in the daily things that we do, the small tasks that we do around a family like having dinner, being present, they're like reading a story to our kid that we do with Mahi, when he asked for the 32nd time to read that same book, being there when we are doing a task and not be distracted by the ads on Instagram, and social media and cetera. That is important. And what helps us with that task is practising mindfulness. So mindfulness
Unknown:is a bit of a buzzword. It is it has been describing was not the buzzword version of mindfulness.
Sirjana Singh:Yes, but the thing is, you remember how cliches became a really sad thing when we were growing up? I think buzzwords are those things for this generation. They are not wrong, they just are overused because I think we a know how important they are. But we don't have the time to understand what they are. Okay, when so we have discussed so many things. Tell me what are some of the ways we can overcome or help our procrastination?
Unknown:What can we do to be more creative? Yes, but do it like on a production line? Alright, so one of the things is to be mindful, we just talked about that. But the other thing is to think about is your hang up that's making you procrastinate. Is that a self doubt? Or is it an idea doubt? If you can say oh, man, this is a self doubt. Flip it over. On the other side of the coin, you've got your idea doubt and instead of saying I suck I can't do this. Be like shy this idea sucks. got another idea?
Sirjana Singh:That is right. Yeah. And if it is a self doubt like I have about my English or you could have self doubt of so many
Unknown:self doubt wonder procrastination buddy. Yes. Find somebody to give you a lift somebody who's like, Wait, this is not that bad and they're high man or hypo. Yeah, you want to hide your high BP right? Yeah. Ah, that was very gender neutral. Have
Sirjana Singh:you done? Yeah. Yes. So you want to hide people around. But also if you don't have a high person around, just talk to yourself loudly because just the act of recording this podcast and talking about what really stops me from replying to those emails made me realise how silly that was. So sometimes you just need to say things aloud, and they just vanish.
Unknown:The other thing you can do is to forgive yourself for all your past transgressions, your procrastination aggressions? Because the science says that braiding yourself only perpetuates the cycle.
Sirjana Singh:Yes. And the last thing, we haven't touched on it before, or maybe gently, but I should forcefully mention it, then really touch it. For any hack to work, self awareness is paramount. And this goes across the board. Not just a procrastination hack. If it's a fashion hack, you're trying to figure out how can you make a loose shirt, turn it into a red sized shirt that fits your silhouette, you need to understand your body. So self awareness is hugely important. So if you are on the internet, and you read an article about cool hacks to get over procrastination, don't just dismiss them. They will work if you understand who you are, because there is no hack outside of self awareness and your vision of who you want to be. Once you understand what are the forces at play that are creating a negative association between you and the task at hand, you can seek to understand yourself better, and give attention to those parts of you that need help. And you can understand what really is distracting you from the task at hand. And once you understand that, it really then becomes this Sherlock homey game of figuring out the clues that reside within you and finding ways to circumvent it. Oh, congratulations,
Unknown:because now I'm keen to actually figure out more about myself. That sounds really fun. Well, congratulations
Sirjana Singh:to you, sir.
Unknown:Thank you, Watson.
Sirjana Singh:Okay, before we wrap up, I want you to hear what Norman a Milgram of Tel Aviv University who's a researcher of procrastination has to say about procrastination. He says it's a malady of modern times, the more industrialised and technologized a society becomes, the more it has to grapple with procrastination as a problematic notion. But we also know from this podcast, that it is not just the problem of industrialised era, Seneca has been talking about it as well. So procrastination is both individual exercise, but also an understanding that we are all dealing with this friggin the heavy. And that we are all vulnerable to it. Chills. We have to do another episode on procrastination. There's so much to talk about. Yeah, definitely. In the meantime, if you have questions, thoughts, your opinions, your battles, your hacks. Uh huh. about procrastination, please send them to us on Instagram. Via DM. We are the creative myth on Instagram. Yeah, you'll
Unknown:see a couple little fishes swimming around there somewhere. Yep, find us there
Sirjana Singh:and please send us a message that make us so happy God today what?
Unknown:Okay, guys, let's cover that part of the episode where we say goodbye even though we don't want to gotta but we are that point where we get the plug next times episode.
Sirjana Singh:Oh, that's so good. The next episode is so good. Yeah, it
Unknown:was an awesome interview with Canadian slash Australian author Ashley Callahan blunt. She was brilliant. And she's the author of How to Be Australian and my name is revenge. Oh, and she also hosts co hosts the James and Ashley stay at home podcast.
Sirjana Singh:The next episode is on frickin fire on fleek. Send an ambulance or no fan the fire truck.
Unknown:Or both? Why not? Hey, also, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at the creative myth where you can find out all sorts of cool stuff like snippets from the next episode, what's going to happen? You get some creative prompts. You get all sorts of neat stuff going on there.
Sirjana Singh:And now you can rate us on Spotify. So please do that.
Unknown:Yeah, if you like today's episode, please He's going like us. raters, do whatever you want to do like us, please rate us as well. Leave us a review wherever you listen to.
Sirjana Singh:Okay, I will leave this blubbering fool behind. Yeah, until next time, stay creative. Oh yeah boy