Ayush Kejriwal - Fashion Design and Personal Branding - The Organic Extension of Self

What if we could show you that we are all born creative? We sometimes think of creativity as a mythical quality that some of us are just born with while others have to go without. But is that really the case? We are here to find out and hopefully fan that creative flame within you as we seek out "creatives" from around the globe and ask them what they think. Welcome to the Creative Myth with us, Ben and Sirjana. We are two humans in love living a 'traditionally creative' life as internationally nomadic elopement and adventure photographers under the name Tinted Photography. 

In this episode of The Creative Myth, we chat with celebrated Indian saree designer Ayush Kejriwal. An introspective and thoughtful creative who draws inspiration from the world around him. Based in Scotland and driven by values of creativity, experimentation and a passion for cultural diversity, Ayush describes himself as the human embodiment of a magpie. "Always on the lookout for shiny cultural offerings wherever they are in the world".  Today we chat about finding your creative voice, building a personal brand, "being bold", inclusivity, positive self-image, bathroom affirmations and inclusivity in the fashion world... (among much else).

Chapters

• 1:26 The Interview

Transcript

0:01

Hello you beautiful people and welcome to the creative myth. The podcast that inspires the uninspired by attempting to unfold, break down and distill that mythical force of nature and or nurture, they call creativity. In each episode, we find a new and engaging self confessed creative and strike up a dialog. I'll go to find out just what creativity means to each of them, how they channel it into their passions, and where exactly it was when they found it. But who is we I can feel you thinking? We are citizen nursing and Benjamin lane wife and husband, Indian and kiwi, adventure photographers, international travelers and curious minds. You may know us better as tinted photography. And if not, you can seek us out on Instagram at Tinder photography or on our website, Tinder photography.com. Today on the creative myth, we are getting to know the inner workings of the super talented and happily work clothing designer I used kg Well, I grew up in India, but is now made his home in Scotland. His creative use of color, bubbly personality and assistance on showcasing his saris only on real humans is a breath of fresh air in the fashion industry. Now, because I use us on the other side of the world from us here in New Zealand has audio is not 100%. But stick around because in today's episode we discuss personal branding, being bold, inclusivity, bathroom affirmations, keeping a positive self image dealing with the past creative intentions and creative rules or lack thereof. So let's get to it. I use I am over the moon, you have no idea. I don't think there was in dictionary but you can see my face, I cannot stop smiling. And it's been like that since you said yes, The pleasure is all mine. I'm so excited myself, it's always wonderful to get the opportunity to share creative ideas and learn from each other. So this is a brilliant opportunity. Thank you ever so much. I want to tell everyone who's listening, why I really wanted you to be a guest on this podcast and really understand the creative behind your work behind your art and behind your life. So number one thing is when I saw your work, this sheer explosion of color, the bold choices and color took hold of me. But those colors are not just bold, they are nostalgic. From my own childhood that I've spent in India, there was this beautiful like sweetness and those colors, and their board and their sweets is just magic. So that is definitely something that stopped me in the tracks. But number two and very important was the models you use. They are so again, I mean, they are real women, but also the way you've chosen them with the work that you put on them. It's so real, I mean, all sorts of color, complexion, all sorts of body sizes, all sorts of age groups. And then also in between sprinkle there some very unconventional theories. So it's just the entire world map, they're right there, dressed in your beautiful attires that you create. And number three, oh my gosh, it is that your creations have a message in them, be it in form of the words that you use to describe them. Or just the fact that you've created not here is a print, and now you have 1000s of them. It's you know, every word, every piece that you create is so unique. So those are the reasons that I fell in love with your work. And I just want to deep dive into your creative mind and understand everything. Thank you very, very much. I'll try my best to share why I do what I do, how I do and what I think about it, and hopefully, we'll be able to make sense of it all and help each other understand our stories. Yay. Okay, so the first question that we're going to ask everyone who comes on this podcast is, Do you consider yourself to be a creative? Yes, I consider myself to be an artist, if you can call that a creative? Yes, I do. Because we constantly create, we create our thoughts, we create ideas, and then we bring them to life. So creativity is the essence of everything that I do. So yes, I would say yes to that question. That is so cool. So that leads me to the next question. Did you have formal training in the work you do in design? No, unfortunately, I never got the opportunity to kind of get a degree in fashion or creativity or design because you being an Indian, you would know the pressure on us to do becoming doctor engineer, MBA all that nonsense, and and unfortunately, I kind of fell in that trap too. And I was so worried about my future. My parents were so worried. And so I finished my MBA, MBA Master's in international marketing, but I never got to do design and fashion. Because that wasn't considered to be one of the preferred options for, especially for males in an Indian society, but but that underlying zeal to explore that always was within me. And so I didn't let the lack of education and technical knowledge I stopped me from doing what I needed to do. I think it was difficult because I didn't have those technical degrees, or all the experience that I required. But in some ways, it made me feel more liberated because I wasn't following a rulebook. I wasn't trying to fit in a parameter. I just did what I did the way I liked it. Some people liked it, some people didn't like it, but I was happy. So you were setting your own rules? Yeah, because I didn't know there were any rules. I didn't know what to go out with. Yeah, I love that answer, because I'm not formally trained in photography then taught me before we started our business. And he's a wonderful teacher. But I also am very impatient. So I just started with the camera as soon as I could. Well, one of the things that I think helps in my creativity is the same that I haven't formally studied it. So the rules almost don't apply to my artwork. And that's where that uniqueness comes. That's where the magic happens. Because you don't, you're not comparing what you need to do with anyone else's. You don't know how to do it, but you know how you want it to be. And you figured out a way for your vision to come to life without following a pattern. And that's unique, because the path you are taking, the way you are doing things the way you are bringing things to life, nobody else would do it, because that's completely coming from your soul. And anything that comes from deep within our soul is only beautiful, it can't be anything else. It's fantastic. So um, what is the inspiration behind your work? does it keep changing as the seasons pass? Or is there one big why behind what you do? You know, I always feel a bit weird answering the question. And I'll tell you why. Because whenever you listen to other designers talking about their work, they have so much thought behind it in the sense or this season, I'm doing this this season, I went there. And that is that I never have any such stories to say because I am a certain observant person, I get inspired by little things. And it I don't have a big story in every creation of mine. But I have elements of different things that I have been inspired by. So for instance, and during autumn when I'm walking on the streets, and I see the rustle of the leaves falling the orange and the pink. And then in spring I see the green that'll create a vision in my head. And then when a time comes, I'll have all those visions and pictures I've taken on my phone and I'll sit and create like a piece, which will be an amalgamation of those five, six things. So if you ask me, what is the ethos behind this design, and there is no ethos that's just life, every piece that I do, has got stories, intertwined together to create something beautiful, it's all about nostalgia. I'm a very emotional person, but lots of stories connection with people. And it could be watching the film and I see a character. And I like that character. And I start dreaming about that character in a color that I think she would look lovely. And before I know, I am creating a boarder from a picture that I took somewhere when I was traveling. And then six, seven stories merge together to create that one piece not to me, each of them mean quite a lot. But I don't have one central theme. So as far as inspiration is concerned, I feel inspiration comes from everything around me people words, poetry, food, nature, you know, relationships, feelings, because sometimes when I'm angry, I can feel, you know, colors popping in my head, and I am a very as and when I'm sad, you know, the Middle East, just everything. It's bizarre. It's like a constant brain is fluffing old ideas. And it's like 24 or seven. It's just I can't explain it. I never have had one concrete idea because that doesn't work for me. And I don't want it to be like that. Because sometimes I might think, Okay, this collection is all going to be red. But suddenly I'll see a tinge of pink and I want that and an orange. So I never parameterize myself, life is too short to work two parameters, and I don't like your words are so wonderful, like such music to my soul. So that's fantastic. One of the things I love when we are traveling around the world and meeting other creatives is the similarities that we find in different art forms. But being creative, you know, we're all creative down there down within. And so even though you're a designer, I'm a photographer, it's so humbling. And it's also so exciting to hear that. Oh my gosh, I do the same thing. I have never not watched I've never watched a movie and not written down ideas like john Did are like oh my god, this is how I'm going to create a double exposure. It's so exciting to hear that you do the same, it's humbling for me, deep down, all artists are the same, we always want to bring something that we've been dreaming about, or we feel passionately about life. Now, it doesn't mean anything from a photographer's point of view, you could see the way the light is falling on a cup of tea or whatever and the reflection, it's creating the color it's creating. And it could be a word or anything, I think, deep down, everybody is creative, and every artist has their own way of bringing it to live. But the basics still remain the same. Whether you knew about it, or you don't in instinctively, we all work in the same way. So I have always believed that in creating something, there is something that I'm understanding about the understood in life, you know, something that had just become very jumbled in my mind. And somehow through the act of painting, or writing or dancing or singing or making a photograph, I am actually unraveling it. It's only at the end. And that's how I know I'm done with some project, you know, sometimes you can people ask how do you know you're done or not over edited or not? Over composed? Is that the moment I get that feeling of? You know that something has unraveled? I know, I'm done. I'm done with the space? Is that something that you experienced as well, you know what, No, mine is completely opposite. I think over analysis is paralysis. And I don't ever try to understand what I am doing. Because sometimes things don't need to make sense. You know, and I always kind of just go with my heart, I keep my mind to one side, because the moment I try to unravel, it becomes really complicated. It's like taking out the volunteers from the spaghetti when you're eating spaghetti. But that's almost impossible. And I've always, I've only realized in the last few years that if I stop analyzing, I think my work is more organic. For me, it's not about getting the feeling you're talking about. For me, it's just about making sure that whatever visions I had, in my mind, or whatever story I had in my heart, it has figured out a way of reaching out to the world. Now that could be in words that could be in some sort of poetry, that could be some sort of picture, that could be some sort of design, or that could be a post that I've done where I've shared my innermost feeling, I've never ever figured out to be, as you say, to kind of come to conclusion, if you know what I mean. I do so when you said that you don't have a cohesive idea behind or the ethos behind your brand. As an observer of what you create. I thought that if I had to sum up the work that you do would be that you think that art is for everyone. Yeah, I have a cohesive idea or ethos behind my brand. What I don't have is a predefined parameter for everything I create. What I was trying to say is some artists come up with work for different season or they come up with an idea and they do that I never do that mine is quite schizophrenic if you like so if you see a piece like five pieces, none of them would be same because I do I'm quite greedy. I want a bit of spaghetti Balinese I bit want a bit of pizza. I want a bit of Ali puri or what Peter Belcher Well, why should I stick myself with one thing, and that's how I am. But But my brand is an extension of me. As individuals, we all have gone through certain stages in our life, happy times, bad times, good times. And it kind of frames us who we are, you know, in the individuals that we are. So when I grew up, and when I started this brand, I thought I have the power to influence people to empower people to bring about a positive change. And I would not have been able to do that if I wasn't real to who I was. And my brand was just a reflection of me. All I wanted to do was share my personal story with people around me in the hope that they would identify themselves and somewhere we could grow together. So when I came up with this brand, one thing I was very sure about was it was going to cater to real people. Because nobody looks like how media shows women are meant to look like it's not possible because they've got 10 stylists for makeup artist, so much of light, but you can walk about in the house like that you don't go to parties. On stone, people have got bingo wings, we've got like hair coming off. We've got like stretch marks, we've got acne, some days, you've got dark eyes, puffy eyes, and you kind of fold all those things. And then I thought if I continuously show people an image which they can't achieve, I'm actually making them unhappy and creating a sense of negativity in the world where people know that this is not this something I can never be so how is that positive service very short. I will never make other people feel the way I have felt looking at things that made me unhappy made me feel I'm not good enough, my job will be to make people feel good about themselves. So that I knew right from the very beginning. So when I started doing what I did, I made it made it a conscious choice that I will never ever used professional models, or you know, those big names, I would just go with anybody who was willing to work with me. And as a stylist, my job is to make everybody look nice, irrespective of their shape, color, size, age, body type, height, nothing, my job is to make everybody look beautiful, because they all are beautiful. And that's what I did. And over time, I did not realize that that was having such an impact, where it almost became like, Oh, that's his strategy. That was never my strategy that just came naturally to me organically, because that's what I totally believed in. And I thought that was the right thing to do, especially in this day. And age, when you look at social media, you've got so much of an influencing power. And when you get messages from women who have been oppressed for how they have looked for years, or they haven't felt beautiful, or they haven't were worn a bright pink candy pin, sorry, because the mother has said, Oh, you're too dark, you know, you just feel like oh, my God, I've had an impact on you. That's my legacy. You know, without, without wanting to do it, I have made a positive impact. And when I started doing that, it was so overwhelming. And I really felt good about myself, keeping all the finances of my business aside, I thought, you know what, just buy a picture, I can change how someone feels. And then, you know, over time that confidence builds and then they send me pictures, then you know, this study has been sitting in my cupboard for years, but I would never brave but that model looks like me. And I'm born. And I thought you know what, that's brilliant. I have, I didn't have to do anything, but just share my story. And that's how the brand thing came into life. So you're right, when you talk about you observing the fact that I taught artists, for everybody design is for beauty is for everybody. Yes, that's true. And I'm glad that as an observer, you are able to gauge that from my brand, because that's what it exactly stands for I Wow, first of all, how you explained your brand and the why behind it. And you're right. The question that I asked before was about how you create art, and the second time asked about your brand. But Wow, I remember this post that you made about this pregnant woman in your sari. Yes. And I was so touched by that photo. And so moved by how you expressed what you felt about that photograph. And then you made a post the very next day, attributing it to all the haters. Yes, you know, people who had said horrible things. And that just gave so many of us so much more power. So to give you a little bit of backstory, when I went to India to buy my wedding attire, unsolicited, I had picked up a dress off the rack, and I was looking at myself in the mirror very happy and exclaiming to my husband to be caught and never thought this color would look good on me. But look at this color. And the owner just walked in and said, When is the wedding day? And I told him and he said, Oh, it's still three weeks away, you know, all you have to do is just stay at home and don't go out in the sun. And you look amazing in this color, unsolicited. And it was just Are you saying that and that happened everywhere. I went like for a facial, they would just put in the whitening cream, or give you the whitening stuff. And it was just like, I'm happy. But by the end of that three weeks and going through meeting designers and makeup, people hire artists. I absolutely didn't like myself. By the time the wedding day happened, nothing that you could put on me. I would be happy with and yeah, looking back and now looking at your posts and going through that has been such an empowering time for me and revisiting my past as well. So not only are you affecting people in the future, in the present, you are definitely affecting past experiences as well. Just want to let you know, well. That's really good to know. I. The reason I do what I do is because I have been through stages in my life where I have questioned how I look, or how people have made me feel with their comments and it's taken. It's been a long journey for me to completely accept who I am. And I think that's why it touches people's heart because stories have got the power of connecting people and when it comes from my heart directly from my heart, it touches your heart and we kind of have an emotional connection that way so people know when they can feel that pain, they can feel that heart and They can feel that power that this person if this person can change and come out of that experience so can I and have seen my mother my sister love my friends in India, Indians Indians, I'm sorry to say but we can be very critical and unkind at times you know, it's all very fake and you know, if you can't speak in English then suddenly you won't have friends if you like dal shovel more than hasta you're not cool if you made a sari and not a skirt, or not any they expect that just because you live abroad, you can't speak in Hindi. And you know it's also stupid things that affinity towards West is bizarre You know, there's nothing wrong I live abroad. So it might sound stupid for me saying that but you have got such a beautiful culture and I think I'm privileged enough to be able to experience a bit of India bit of UK and take the best of both worlds. But I'm never ashamed. Yes, I am an Indian and and British at the same time. And then I go to India, it really irritates me. They're happy to kind of disown anything that's very Indian, in our culture, and everything has to be westernized. And same thing with color because Europeans are right and suddenly dusky skin is not beautiful, but dusky skin is beautiful. And this whole thing about maternity stuff. I mean, like the media the way that it is hiding your cubs, why would you hide? You're creating a human being, you are plentiful, you've got the power. It's magical. Why the hell would you hide that? What is there to be ashamed of show it out. It's a bump. It is a being going in. men can't do that. Why I just don't get that. It's the most beautiful thing on this art. It is bizarre. And then when I posted that picture, I did I did not even know Kiki was pregnant. So we do quite a lot of shoots together. And she said come over, she said, but I am pregnant. And I said so what you you still need to wear clothes just come over. She said it masks the resin, I don't care just come over. And we took the picture. And she had such a protective, you know, gaze in her eyes, and she held her stomach. That was a beautiful picture. But there were so many people who kind of messaged me saying Oh, you're sexualizing pregnancy, you're showing her boobs. And I said, I'm sorry. There are a list of designers who've got blouses which go off 12 inches on people who are not pregnant suddenly, because the lady is pregnant, I'm sexualizing it nor am showing motherhood am showing her busting it. I'm showing how full shares and I'm showing her how beautifully she is glowing. And that's what I was trying to do. But then I will always believe that somebody somewhere will always have something to say, and just ignore them. Like whatever. If you don't get it, it's your problem. But I always challenge police, I think it's extremely important to challenge them, rather than just ignore them. No, I'm not going to ignore you. I'm going to let you know that you're wrong. And I don't care. But I did hear what you have to say. And I'm telling you, you won't let me change what I need to do. And that's what I always do. And then answering them back. You are in part educating people who are writing just misguided comments. Yeah, not necessarily feeling all of that, but they're just misguided, you know, and you educate them and also to others like us, you're giving us a voice. And then we can learn from that and help ourselves in those situations. And I think it's my responsibility. So if I've used Kiki's pregnancy, in my campaign, and somebody are making horrible comments in that model looks at those comments, she start feeling bad about herself. And I don't want her to feel bad, because I know she's beautiful. So it's my responsibility to fight for that woman. Because, you know, I have put her on that platform where people are criticizing her. And so as you said, other women who wouldn't be in that same situation, they need to feel good about themselves. So if I have gone in fight fought for them, you know, they'll think Actually, no, he's right. They're wrong. And I think that's very important to know why people say best thing on social media is to keep quiet. No. If I only say things when things are good, why would you not fight criticism? I mean, like, Who cares if I lose 200 followers? I don't care. I'll be I'll be telling my story. Even if I have one following forget followers. I am telling my story. My energy is great. I don't care. I don't care about followers. I get hundreds of people and falling. But I'm not a yes, man. I didn't come here to please you. I came here to quench my thirst. If you don't like it, that's your problem, not mine. And that's how I believe in as arrogant as that sounds. That's how I've always approached my work. I don't do it. For other people. I only do it for myself. This is my story, my film, my narrative. I'm going to say it, show it talk about it the way I like it. If you don't like it, your problem if you love it, I'm very grateful. Thank you ever so much. There's no other way of doing that. I have to tell you, it doesn't sound arrogant actually sounds very confident and very bold. And also it shows the degree of empathy that you have, not only for what you you know for people who are appreciating There are people who will be wearing your art, but also for the bad apples that make our society really, really cumbersome to bear sometimes. So I think it shows more empathy than definitely doesn't show arrogance, and also, the social part of social media has to be acknowledged, you know, it's not a one way street, we have to tell our stories there. And that's the whole beauty of social media. It's not about attracting more people to come into your yard. It's about, you know, having amazing dialogues there so we can further the conversations that we're having in the society. I have two questions like swimming in my head. And before I forget them, I'm going to ask them both. And you can decide which way you want to answer them. So as a photographer, I have to ask, how do you plan your shoots? And do you think that it is almost imperative to be bold, to be creative? I think being anything for the sake of it is wrong. Some some times I think, artists are people, they say, Oh, I have to make it look different. So I have to make involved or have to make a different I have to do this for it to be creative. I think once you start pushing things, it like you know, if you're making a dish, if the ingredient doesn't go it doesn't go, you know, you can't force it in otherwise the taste will be ruined. Same thing goes with creativity, for making something look beautiful. From a creative point of view. It doesn't necessarily have to have that bold ingredient boldness is what bullies is an energy. I don't think like I if I put a red sari with a big Mohawk and purple lipstick, that's bold. No, I can make a woman wear a red sari completely traditional, no Western element to it with no makeup. And she will look very bold with the way she looked into the camera with the way I'll make her feel with the way she feels about herself that energy in her eyes. That's baldness, you know. So that's how I look at in Bolinas, for me is not about style. It's not about things, the boneless To me, it's about the energy or the way person feel. Anybody can be bold, or I can make anything look bold, by the way I placed them the background I use the way I make them stand the main way I make them feel for me, it's how the model fails, I spent a lot of time in talking to my models before the shoot during the shoot playing the right kind of music, making them feel talking to them, finding out a bit about them and using those when they're shooting. So you can feel their anger, sometimes their happiness or while shooting, I will just go on and say something really funny. And they laugh. And I always tell my photographer, keep the camera rolling, don't worry about it, I want you to take 7000 shots, don't worry about it. And I don't care about if your hair is going in. It's all those things. And I'll say things like, if I know they've been having a hard time with their family or something, I'll just say or think about that. And it's making them cry, laugh joke, creating the right kind of music. So before a shoot, I always look at my clothes, I look at the woman who I'll be shooting with and I try to imagine them as a person, I find out a bit more about them. And then I kind of fit my clothes and my styling around that model. My models are not kind of tune tuned in to fit my clothes I do the other way around. My clothes are not relevant. It's the woman I'm shooting that's relevant. It's all about that woman. Whereas a lot of times people say they create a collection then they look at models to fit in the clothes, I do it the other way around, I first find out who will be working with me. And then I plan my clothes. And then I tell the photographer, forget about my clothes. Let's work on the model. It's about the models, face models, lighting, the makeup artist, nothing to do with my clothes. And inevitably, what happens is the model looks so beautiful because it's all about her that my clothes gets highlighted automatically. Because I'm talking about a real person. My clothes are intangible, there's a real person. You know, it's about her, not me, not my clothes, not my jewelry, not the makeup artist, not the photographer, she and only she is the most important person. That's how I plan my shoot. And two things are very important. My shoots people have to have fun. You know, it's not about what we laugh a lot. We joke a lot at the end of the day, we are tired, but you've had such a great day, making beautiful art and music. And I I love music. I think music has the power to make you feel good, bad, whatever. So all the songs and I just dance and it's just amazing fun. That's how I plan my shoot. It's very, very chilled out. There are no rules most of the time. I know what I want, but I can't explain it. though. I'm a very hard worker and very difficult to please. I knew exactly what I want and I won't listen to anybody. I will just do what I want like it or not even the photographer's technically I said hell to do with your technology. I don't care. You said Oh, but that like when work I said I don't care I wanted and I wanted like that. That's how I do it. So I hope that answers to your questions. Yep. And I'm also noticing how much should we have similar in that approach as well, I am actually very humbled by your answers. Coming from a photographer, I'm a bit crazy, but you can't be what you can be, you know, you are what you are, I suppose? No, absolutely. So because Ben is more technical in our relationship as sometimes as for these crazy things, and he'll tell me, but this and this wouldn't work. And I'll just be like, No, but I think but if you just put it, let's just try it. Sometimes just sheer magic comes out of it. Sometimes you definitely fail, nothing comes out of it. But it's a great learning curve. Regardless, I am definitely very hard to please. But I also push other people to have a lot of fun, because that's in the end of the day, you can have amazing photos. But if you didn't have good experience creating that photo, you just have amazing photos of a shitty day. So it really doesn't. Yeah, and I don't think you can create beauty without having fun. If you're having fun. It'll just show it's very, very important. I think that's the most crucial part. And I don't have a big team or anything. It's very organic, very chilled out. Just normal people. There are no high flyers there. I don't like it like that. It's just it has to be real, very real. Absolutely real. Like I don't care a bit of a smudge lipstick or a hair sticking out or you know, bit of Marco forget, it's it's normal. It's okay. Doesn't matter doesn't bother me one bit. I don't even know I have my Saudis before the shoot. Because when you're going to a wedding, after an hour, everything is crumpled. You're all these Auntie's around you you're sitting down having your meal. So well, if the crease, it doesn't look like that doesn't look like you're gonna get off a car. When you're getting the wedding, you've got crumpled behind your back. So how does it really matter? It does. That is so true. So coming back to my second question that you answered first, about boldness. So maybe the right word is fearlessness? That Do you think that you need to have the capacity to be fearless, to be fully able to express your creativity? Without a doubt? Yes, I think if you if you are able to do what you want to do the way you want to do it with whoever you want to do it without worrying about how it's going to be accepted or not, whether it's going to be liked or disliked whether it's gonna have a commercial viability or not, then you are you're elevated to a platform where you're beyond all of that, and, and you have nothing that can stop you. And that's where real creativity comes out. But nine out of 10 times, we are always either following a trend following a textbook following something or the other, which tells us this is how you do it. But who created those rules, there are no rules when it comes to creativity, you are your own master in that sense. And I don't think creativity came back parameterised in any shape, or form. And I'll tell you this one, you know somebody Sachi once said to me, I wish it's all about creating what you want to create, and people will find you. And I think that's the best advice I was given. Because it's true, you will create something, not everybody will like it. But somebody somewhere in the world will like what you do, and they will find you. And that's exactly what happened with me. I don't have a website, I have not been part of any shows, I have no PR or nothing. I just have my pictures on social media. And all these people have found me magically somehow. So yes, that works. And it is about being fearless. Because that's when you can kind of fly fears hold us back. And we just need to fly. They hold our individual individuality back as well. Because we generally to feel safe, we want to belong in a group, you know, to feel safe. So it takes away our individuality. But when you you're fearless, you can express yourself in a way that only you will express it. And that just creates an edge as well. If I feel the fear of not being accepted the fear of validation, the fear of not being liked, because we as human beings are always craving for the tension, that love that appreciation. But then we forget that you can appreciate yourself, you can compliment yourself, you can look into the mirror and say you know what? You're doing very good. You're the best that you can do your competition in yourself, you've done better than what you did yesterday, and you're trying to do much better than what you're going to do today tomorrow. So you know, we can do that to ourselves. We don't need a second person to tell us or you're so good. No. And once we do that to accent we forget we kind of stopped looking at that validation looking for that appreciation from elsewhere. And that's when you kind of become fairly fixed. You have nothing to lose, you know, you've done your best in your eyes. That's the best so it doesn't matter whether someone else likes it or not because you love it and that's what matters. And it took me a very very long time after feeling After kind of getting so many rejections from so many platforms being critiqued all the time, and I was like, No, I put in so much of work, how the hell? Who the hell are you to tell me that's not good enough, just because you don't understand it. It's like some people like the tea sweet. Some people don't take sugar. But that doesn't mean that the tea is bad. It's preference, you know. And that's exactly with art. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad. It's just not your taste. Yeah, that's how I look at it. So I don't care if people critique my work. It's like, that's your opinion. So I don't care, I've got a, I really have a no nonsense approach to this, it really doesn't bother me, I don't have the time for it. So I have this thing when I am editing my work, or just in the back of my camera as well, especially when I've edited the work. And I have this photo, and I'm so happy about it. I never asked for critique at that point, I'll ask things like, is the photo straight because I have this? I cannot, for the life of me ever see a photo and tell you that if it's straight or not, it's always crooked. And somehow my eyes can see it. Outside of that, in the beginning, Ben would critique some of my work, because obviously he was teaching me at that point. And after a certain point, I had to start telling him, Do you feel anything when you see this work? If you do, that's about it. I don't need to know anything else, the colors, the saturation, because it might work for you. It might not work for you, it could work for somebody else. And when I mentor other creatives as well, one of the analogies just salvia sabyasachi told you is that as a creative, you have to always believe that you have all already booked in arena. And people have already bought the tickets, and they're on your show. Now you just have to show up and rock the concert. without believing that it's very hard, especially I mean, previously, when there was no social media, or we didn't rely on our creative work to actually bring livelihood, it was different, because you created just for yourself, it stayed in your diaries and in your portfolio. But now that we have to put our work out, there has to be a feeling of like, no, my work will find its people. I don't have it can't be the other way around. And I think you made a very valid point there. And I feel the same about emotions. When I create something as long as it makes people feel something, it's fine, whether it's sad, happy, angry, disgusted, it's fine, as long as you feel. And I actually think like that as well, in every time when I create pictures, sometimes people say, well, that's really sad. I said, as long as it made you feel sad, it's fine. It's done its job. It doesn't matter how you feel. It's feeling something if you didn't feel anything, if you just looked at a picture, and then all that, sorry, looks nice. That's my job not done, because it's all about making you feel. So I'm glad you think that way as well. Because I always thought that was a bit. You know, I was over indulging in my work thinking, Oh, my God, my picture will make people feel something. But I thought why shouldn't that you know, it is important. So I'm glad that you feel the same. Because some of my friends always say to me, Oh, my God, Who do you think you are? The best. So I guess I can just say, you know, it's not love other people think like that. So that's good. No, I use I remember, before I did my marketing degree, I used to feel that maybe the way to market your art and build a brand is to you know, understand what the nerve of the of the people that you're selling your product to is. And after I remember if it was the last day of my degree, and I was meeting my professor for tea or something. And I asked her the same question I said, so. So the first thing I have to do is understand the audience and like, you know, demographics, and the psychogenic 's and all of that I need to understand that and then I'll be able to sell more, and should literally point blank looked at me and she said, I'm so sorry. That's all you've learned in your degree. Because the whole point is that you have to create something that first gives you joy gives you purpose, because if it doesn't, it will never be sustainable. And you will never be able to find an audience for that. And it just blew my mind. Everything understood about brand creation. I was like what Really? So it's it's not self centered of me to think like this. And no, it's actually a very essential part of creating a brand and creating art is to be able to enjoy it, feel it and have it means something to you. And that's like the first step. You cannot have a brand without a story and you can't have a story without it being real and coming right from your heart. So that's very important. People waste so much of time coming up with the logo colors. I don't even have a bloody I never needed a logo. I don't even have a lot of time people when they're writing something that you have no I said no. And they clearly don't have a logo. Don't need one. I don't have a website. I don't think none of that is important. I think it's just It's just if you're passionate, if you're honest, if you truly, really believe in something, then the magic happens. And it happens beautifully. The universe gets together to make all that thing come true. And I totally believe in it. It's miraculous. But it happens, it happens. It happens. It takes its time. You can't push it, you just need to do it, do it, do it till you get what you need to do. And it will happen. You know, there is the or it's all about energy, we need to create that energy. If we so passionately about it, speaking about it, give me goosebumps, I'm completely in the order just now. But that's how badly I feel about it. And madly in love with what I do. And all of those things when it comes into place, you know, success, fame, money, then all that comes parallel. You don't need to worry about all of that. You need to just worry about your craft and everything else falls in place. Yes, yes, yes, yes to everything you're saying. Now listening to you, you seem so confident about what you're creating and how you're feeling? Have you ever experienced imposter syndrome? What's that? So that's the feeling that you are fooling the world, like people think you're an amazing artist, but sometimes you have this feeling of am I really? Ah, maybe not? Are you look at your work, and you're like, it's not that good. So that amazing? Like, do you have those moments? It's funny you say that? Because my mother says that all the time to me, who do you think you are? You're a con artist, and like, Who the hell to pay for that. That's rubbish. And my friends say that? You know, honestly, I don't I as radical as that sounds, I actually don't. And I look at that I say, Oh, my God, that's beautiful. I wish and maybe I'm delusional, you can call me that. But I don't, I really, really don't. Because I genuinely believe that I am the best because I don't compare myself to anybody. My comparison is only to my last product. So if I make a salary, and that's better than the last one I made, I'll be happy. But I never look at someone else's work. I never look at other ones picture and say, Oh, my God, that's better than mine. I appreciate other people's work. I learned from them, but I never sit and pair because you might call me delusional. Or I might have framed myself to believe that I am better than everything around me that that's just made my life so much more easier. Because if I'm not comparing, or if I'm not undervaluing my work, then I'm happy and I want to be happy. Anything that gives me unhappiness. I don't want that feeling. So I think I've trained my mind to kind of conditioned in a way that nothing around me is going to impact how I feel think, or what I do, it's not going to change. So I guess no, I don't have that feeling I never have. Maybe something is wrong with me. But I'm happy now. There is no so one of the stories I tell everyone is that I was bullied very heavily when I was in school. And a lot of that had to do with how I looked. But somehow I thought it was the prettiest thing ever that has walked on the earth like literally, as I would walk I had really short here like almost a boy who are very pretty cute. I would literally feel that this Bollywood breeze you know, blowing my almost non existent hair. And everybody was staring at me was looking at me because they are in love with me. Like, that's how pretty I thought I was. Till I actually went back home one day and looked at the albums from the era and I was like, Whoa, okay, somebody who was really high on something that I was not aware of. But I started feeling imposter syndrome. First time when I came to New Zealand and realized my English wasn't as good because back home, my compared to my peers, my English was really good. Then I went to Convent School, realize my English was really bad. And then I came to New Zealand and realized, Oh, my gosh, it is bad. So that's the first time that I wasn't I wasn't able to express my feelings as they were occurring in my heart because I was translating them and was lost in translation. So that was the start of me feeling imposter syndrome because I would create something and then things could have done better. It's not that amazing, because I was on a high of how I was treated in India, and then fell hard here in New Zealand. And it was just a little so that was still understandable because there was a skill that I had to learn. But really, when it came into play was when social media became almost my entire life. There was this two years of my life where I lived, breathed. Everything was social media. For me if I was doing something, it had to go online, it had to look perfect. It had to be just this. You know, before I understood what branding was. I just I was creating a brand out of thin air basically. And that just changed This whole imposter syndrome in me, which took me almost three years to understand get rid of, and even my background is in psychology, even then with all that information, it was very, very hard. So to hear you say that you recognize that if there is something that is going to cause negativity in your life, you don't even entertain that, that has been tested. And I think there's a difference between self doubt and lack of knowledge. So for instance, if I look at something, and I don't have the skill, or the knowledge, or the capability to do that, and I can equip myself, that's a different thing. That's a learning, that's okay. And I do that sometimes, if I'm found out about something, or if I'm not done something, I'll do that. But I will never sit and critique my work that I have done. Just because someone else the world thinks has done it better than me. It's no comparison. You know, I'm not comparing it so you can make me feel bad about my one because I don't care what you think. However, if for instance, like just now you you name that sim syndrome, I did not know what that means. I'm not ashamed of asking you that question. And never ashamed of learning. I would not like some people would really be ashamed and saying, Oh, I don't know the meaning. But I'm not going to make a fool of myself and not ask, you know, it's not just it's for me, it's not beating myself up for things which are not in my control. You know, I have done my best. And if somebody doesn't like it, there's nothing I can do about it. I couldn't have done it. And I think that things you don't have control over. You're not wasting your energy on that. No, because one of the things that people with imposter syndrome feel are the reason why they feel imposter syndrome is because they are perfectionists, and they're perfectionist, because they are either procrastinating on their ideas, those people become perfectionist, because they've been procrastinating for a long time. Or it's just that feeling of I can do better. Why this is not enough. Because there's an incongruence between who you are and who you see you are. And when that gap increases. I think that's where the imposter syndrome comes in, like who you understand. So the self awareness isn't that high. And you're seeing yourself in some place. So sometimes it's not even competition with the world. It's with just yourself. The first two episodes that we recorded for this podcast, for example, I cried myself to sleep for like three nights in a row. Because I was like, I could have done better. I really thought I suspected better from me. How can I put this out in the world? This is crazy. To the point that one day Ben had to just like literally shake me and go like, Who do you think you are? You are on a learning journey. And you're creating this be fearless and put it out in the world and keep learning on the way. It's fun. Yeah, talk about what we think of ourselves. I came across this quote yesterday said, I am not what I think I am. I am not what you think I am. I am what I think you think I am. And that is the problem with us. We always think if someone thinks if I think I'm fearless, I won't believe that. If you think I'm fearless. I wouldn't believe that. But I think you have said to Ben that he is fearless. Suddenly, I will know I'm fearless. We're always like that. And I'm quite I didn't realize until I heard that quote that I actually am aware of that. And it's always about coming out of that feeling of what other people are thinking beat of my sales beat of my work beat of my anything like beat my relationship with my cooking beat what I'm wearing beat what I'm saying like, people will always happen to me. And it's just creating that boundary around yourself that that's their opinion, that's not mine. In my eyes. We all have an opinion of ourselves. And I always try to keep that at the top of everything. Yeah, oh my gosh, that is so important. So it's not just self awareness that is important. It is also very important to protect the self, you know, just like having awareness about yourself. That's just one step. And then once you're aware of that being selfish and greedy and wise enough to create barriers between the world and yourself to have that protection, you need to protect our being our inner soul because in this day and age, there are people around us who are will very happily take extreme pleasure in our you know, unhappiness and it's as sad as it sounds. There are lots of people we talk to half of them don't even care how we are feeling. Other people are happy that we are feeling not happy. And few people actually care they will never make us feel bad. So I think it's just knowing how often people are not even interested. I don't even share half the time how I feel because I know they're not interested. It's pointless. You know, why would I waste my time a lot of people would feel happy if I'm unhappy. So it's like whatever it doesn't really bother. I have this thing in my bathroom mirror three postings which says I wish you're doing your best you're gonna have a wonderful day I use your gorgeous, I use your great and I look at that every time when I'm brushing my teeth in the morning. because it reminds me that, you know, I am doing my best. And that's all I can do rest all is you know in the universe, and it keeps me grounded. As you I was very badly bullied at school, and I had so many confidence issues. And when I came to UK, it all changed because I was able to accept who I was, and you know, fight for my ride. But until I was 1718, I was so unsure of myself. So it's taken me a long time to get to where I am today. But I think that's what connects us as individuals we all have our past, which makes us into what we are today. And that's the message to all the people who bully other people. It's funny how those same people who bullied me at school sent me friend requests and pretend as if nothing happened, like have you forgotten? Because I haven't. And it's just bizarre. It's absolutely bizarre. I just chuckled to myself. I'm like, either you have chosen to forgotten or you're ashamed of yourself, but too proud to say sorry, you know, because I hope children don't go through what you put me through at the time. And it's funny, bullies don't realize that the bully the impact of that you carry through all your life, it never leaves you. Yes, you know, even today, because of the way what was done to me or what was said to me, I still sometimes, you know, have to remind myself Oh, that was the past. But it scarred you for life. And it's so bad. And that's why people on social media do hiding behind a screen and telling somebody that they are not good looking or whatever. It it kind of breaks a chip in you even a small scar scratch. And that's not nice. Why would you do that? I just don't understand strangers making bad comments about other people. It's just bizarre. Bizarre to get? No, you're right. It never affected me when, when the bullying was actually happening. Because like I said, I had this belief that I This can't be I am very beautiful. What are you talking about. But much later in my life. Just randomly some out of the 10 year, it started impacting me. So it was sitting somewhere dormant. And it just one day hatched. And it took control over me and affected a lot of other areas, not just the way I saw myself, but also how I acted, how I laughs how I projected myself out in the world. But luckily I was aware of that and was able to work on it ASAP. But sometimes it just takes hold of your life. And you just have stopped someone to blossom into a person that they could have been just because yeah, and not everyone know you're brave enough to overcome that, you know, not everybody has that courage or the support or the willingness or the willpower to overcome all those things that the bullies do to them. And that's really sad because you've wasted a life knowingly or unknowingly. But it is what it is. There are bullies everywhere. We just need to hopefully equip ourselves and our future generations to love themselves. I feel very sad for children. And like I can see that as an adult now but my 10 year old child in me or the 12 year old child, I wish I had that wisdom, which I don't. And that's why I hope parents would do quite a lot more with their children rather than just educating them. It's about teaching them how to be happy, confident and and live a fulfilling and enriching life full of beautiful things. It's not just about getting A's and B's in science and mathematics or chemistry and geography. There's so much more to that. And I don't think I wish my mum and dad taught me how to be happy when I was a child. I would have lived so many more years of joy than you know it came late in life by the moment I wish you concentrated on other things rather than just education. But you know, we come from a different world. We live Villard. No, absolutely. I mean, the one of the biggest things both Ben and I are reading these days as we prepare for Parenthood is about inculcating self esteem in our future child, because not just because they will be safe from bullies, but they won't become bullies themselves. This is one of the biggest reasons people talk back negative things and gossip or say things behind your back is because they're dealing with their own insecurities. And they project through different ways on you in your life. So one of the very important things, I think, as parents and as future parents is to, you know, have that provide in in a home, a level of love and care so that your child feels loved and in that can is able to inculcate the feeling of self esteem, but then then within themselves. So that is really important. And thank you for touching that subject. Because, yeah, bullying kills, literally. We need to talk more about it. Okay, coming back to creativity. I want to know now that we're discussing how again, how confident you are in the art that you create, do you act on all Your creative ideas? Or do you have a system where you have a lot of ideas, you write them down, but then you're able to pick and choose, you know what I do act on all of them. And I almost beat myself up if I don't, because I don't know which one out of those ideas are actually going to be something that's going to break the sky for me. And I have always that feeling. I don't know, I remember I mentioned that book to you. The Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. And she made a very valid point that, you know, ideas are like energy, they will come to you, if you don't respect them, if you don't make them come to life, they'll move on to somebody else. And sometimes you'll know this, you might have an idea of doing something, writing something, making a picture, and you haven't done it. And a few weeks later, you will see that popping up. Somebody will say, you know what I was thinking about that? Why the hell did I not do it? Yeah. And you'll beat yourself up to it. And I thought that happened to me quite a lot of times in the past. So now if I have an idea, I don't wait, overanalyzing it, even though I'm not 100%. Ready, I'll go with the flow. And I'll make my mistakes. And I create the path as I'm going along. But I won't sit and prepare and wait, oh, my God, I don't have that patience. So yes, if I have an idea, bring it to life. As soon as possible, I might not be able to do it in the same scale as I wanted, but I will, at least, you know, start working on it. So that idea becomes mine, it doesn't go away, I just want the idea to know that I respect it, I'm going to love it, I'm going to cherish it. So please stay with me Don't go away. Because your mind absolutely blown away by this love affair that you have with your creativity and how much you nurture it and how much you just hold it close to your heart. Even if the creativity knows I love it more than it loves itself, it will stay with me. It's important. That seems that same with people isn't it. If you love somebody more than they love themselves, they'll stay with you. Because it's very difficult to find somebody who loves you more than you love yourself, or who believes in you, then you believe in yourself. And I think seeing that same with creativity, if you are passionate about like, you might have an idea about creating a beautiful photograph. And if you totally believe in it, it will happen. It will happen if you doubt it or if you don't love it. As much as you know, with the core of your heart, it won't happen. And as as, as you know, over exaggerated or cliche that may sound that's true, because some people tell me Oh my God, Who do you think you are? You take yourself too seriously. So why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't I take myself too seriously? Why wouldn't I take what I do too seriously. In fact, I'm privileged, I'm capable of doing everything I can with my 100% You should be ashamed if you don't take yourself too seriously. You take you take yourself seriously, but you take yourself seriously, as a childhood. You know, you're having fun. In what you're creating, there is an abandonment to the way you create stuff. There is fearlessness in it. So I think it doesn't define your style. properly. If somebody says you take yourself seriously, they have to add as a child. Yeah, I think yeah, that that would be fair, that would be a fair statement. Yeah. It's all about emotional connection, because my story is connected to you. And you might have just get energized with my story. Because that's what story all about. I meet people who have the same passion, and I'm like, Oh, my God, I want to do I want to be that way. Or I want to, you know, feel like that. And it's about the energies. And it's something you mean a sad person, and everything gets depleted, and they suck out of you. And other times, you meet people who are full of positivity and light. It's just data that's all about stories, isn't it because what we are doing here is sharing each other's story. And by doing that we are passing good energy to each other, and kind of encouraging, empowering, enriching our lives. And that's what's most important. And that's why I agreed to do this podcast with you because I think it is so important that people feel hear about other people's good and bad and things that haven't worked and have worked in some way or the other, we find our stories and everybody else's story. And that is what makes this world you know, the people around it so special. It's just amazing. And I was very glad that when you contacted me, I feel this is brilliant. I'll get an hour of just chit chatting about my life. And then hopefully, I will be able to help other people and I'll hear more stories from you and I'll be able to learn from that because it's all a big learning processes and the day in and day out. So um 2020 has been very, very stressful. Did your creativity take a hit? This might sound terrible. 2020 for me has been quite good actually, irrespective of all the sad but the Coronavirus, it's been a year, which I have really really had the opportunity to slow down self analyze, reflect and think about things Then from a creative point of view, I think it has given my creativity and depth because it has taken away the pressure of time from me. And it has kind of made me feel like I'm not in control at all. So it has taken away that added level of stress because all the plans I had for 2020 just came to a standstill. And it almost made me chuckle saying like, oh, gosh, you thought you will do this, but you won't do anything until the universe wants you to. So in some ways, 2020 has enriched me into being a more calmer version of myself a more grounded version, and a more, you know, a person who who, who knows how to slow down. So from a creative point of view, like I said to you before, I want to make everything come to life that I think about, and so that that space of my creativity has slowed down a bit, which I think I really needed it because i think i was growing, going at 100 miles an hour now I probably go at 25 miles an hour. And it's just this amount of time that I've had, you know, where I've spent things at home, cooking, going for walks, sitting by the river, watching these, these pigeons come to my balcony every day, seeing the light of the sun coming in the house at different angles in different rooms, reflections, because you're always at work, you never notice, you know, several somehow my house sounds differently at different times of the day, how the temperature of the fluid changes how much I've not enjoyed spaces in my house, because I've never dealt with days, you know, meeting my neighbors have never said hello to watching the dogs being walked in the, from the balcony with different personality that really had the time to look at small things which I never had the time to see my flowers grow, seen them draw up, you know, amazing, amazing time for 2020 has been a brilliant year, that way, I'm not going to undermine or negate the fact that it's been terrible to see what all is happening around the world, in terms of the disease and people losing the light. At the same time. Something has collectively bought all of us together the solidarity, the general emotion, the cohesiveness of a coming together and fighting this pandemic, people are far more kinder, when you go into supermarkets, there's a smile in their face, everybody slow down. So all those things, in spite of all the negative rates, there are lots of things which have really enriched my heart and soul. And I feel this world is a better place in terms of how we feel about each other how appreciative we are of life, and everybody's had that wake up call. And that time is not always on our side. And nature is far more powerful than we are. And we just need to make the best of what we have. And both in terms of our professional lives, and creative lives and personal lives. So I would think overall, it has still been a very positive year. So for us, the start, I think we divide the year into two halves, the first half was very draining. our livelihood came to stop, suddenly, you know, there is no money coming in. And there was this. You know, when you suddenly put the brakes on, we were working so much and you're traveling so much. And suddenly you're just like what were you have to take stock of whatever you were doing, and then good and the bad both comes with it. So yeah, the first half of was quite turbulent, then the Black Lives movement started which opened up a lot of dialogues back home in India as well, about how we treat migrants and how he treats people who are dark skinned and the privilege, a lot of things that you know, you've put behind in your day to day life so as to you don't have to worry about them. And day to day life became a conversation point and you had to deal with them and you come face to face with them. So the first half was actually hard. As an emotional person, it took a toll on me, like a grand toll on me. But like you said, the second half was when everything that we were confronted in the first half started unraveling through art, you know, we started more self portraits more creating more work for ourselves started YouTube now doing this podcast, etc. And with that creative outlet, things became better. It has been a challenging year and I'm not gonna deny the fact that it keeps everybody on their toes and fearful. But at the same time when I never in my lifetime thought that I'll have so much of time to myself that I won't be going to work. I mean, like, we always think, Oh my god, I wish there's something like that happens and I need to stay at home. I wish I'd have to go to work. You know those kinds of things almost like it was granted on a plane and I appreciate the fact that from a financial point of view, you know, it was putting things on a standstill in it. They all have that you can't deny that but it's still I just feel like I've grown so much as a human being in the last one year. Yeah. And which which I probably wouldn't have had the opportunity. If 2020 never happened, though for not a minute, I'm under estimating the impact of this horrible disease, and the perils of it for people around me. I've seen lots of sad, sad stories, and it's heartbreaking. But as I said, I'm kind of I've trained my mind to only concentrate on the good. So yeah, whenever my mind goes there, I just keep pushing, pulling it back to all the good things. And I don't think of it that way. As selfish as that this sounds but as the only way I survived, no, no, I usually doesn't. And honestly, before I met you, I used to tell everyone, I am the most positive person I've met. But I'm just like, what I'm now looking at Mount Everest and going, what am I this piddly hill? We all have our own coping strategies. And yeah, you have yours, I have mine, whatever works for you have a very fun one. I love yours. I'm glad. Most of the people who know me they live in a cuckoo land of your own, which doesn't exist. I said, Well, it does exist in my mind. And that's what matters. Yeah. And in that cuckoo land Gordon code, you are saner, you're happier. And you're growing. Because you we cannot learn it's a it's a it's a psychological thing. It's a mind thing that you cannot learn. When we are put in a fight or flight situation precisely to do any learning and any growing, we have to feel comfortable in our own skin secure. And if possible, happy, yes. But at least comfortable in our own skin and secure. So that's that is why even though we travel a lot, and we work a lot in every other year, on the calendar that we have lived on this earth 2020 gave us that time, at least the second part of 2020, for us, at least gave us that time to feel calm about everything that had happened give time for things to make sense. And with that time we were able to grow. Otherwise, yeah, sometimes Ben and I discuss how much we have traveled. And it should have been the 2019 or 2018, or even 2017 would have been that year that we said we grew, and that we can, you know, say confidently that we've learned so much. But no, it was 2020. Because we had the time and the mental space to just go and not be in constant anxiety and running around. And we were able to learn those lessons. Are there any rituals that you have that sustain your creativity? So for me, for example, dance is one of the rituals. So if I'm not feeling it, if I'm in a funk, if I feel like my muse is not face to face with me or something, I just have to put music, a certain music that can make me feel my body and I can dance and somehow I'm taken out of that funk. And I'm able to create, do you have rituals like that? I do. And mine is a rather bizarre one. But since you asked them to share with you, yes, I do this thing where whenever I'm in a confusion and happy, sad or very happy or, or in a situation I create two of my cells, one would be me, the fearful one, the real one, the one which is facing the world. And the other person is gonna be the Irish my soul who is there for me no matter what. And I talk to that other person. So I'll be walking in the street. And let's say I will say to the soul, I used to tell this realize, what are you worried about? And I'll give the answer. And it's almost like an interview between my soul and the worldly I use. And I do that like literally every day, either one, sometimes three times a day when I'm in the shower, or when I'm walking and see when I sometimes I have to massage my ego and bring it down. Like if I think I'm doing really good or an opportunity has come up very excited. I have to say come down, you know, because sometimes our ego over inflates what we do. And that's when a creativity comes in because we think oh my god, I am invincible. I'm indispensable. And it's a natural feeling. So sometimes, you know, that helps. That's what I do. on a day to day basis. I sometimes interview myself thinking that I am being awarded this great art project, some some nonsense, it's all those kinds of things, but I believe in that and I truly go into that moment. But I prepared my answers and I'm talking to myself and you might see me walking on the street thing is completely mad. But I do it and that's my way of when I'm cooking or anything I just talked to myself because in my head and two people one where nobody can touch that person that That person has my inner voice, and the other one of me who the world sees, but my inner voice, I talk to my inner voice, my intuition. And that's my man's way of doing things. So if I'm, if I'm worrying about what should I do red or pink or blue, you know, from a point of view, or if I'm trying something new and a bit fearful, as you said, then my inner Irish would come me down and say, well, who cares? Remember, you don't care. Because I loved you. I like your work. And that means it's gonna push me forward. That's my bizarre thing. As crazy as that sounds. No, that is fascinating. So I do the same, but in relationships. So if I have had a very bad fight, or I'm crying, and I don't feel loved, or what have you, that's when I will have that conversation. So I'll interview myself, I have all of those, but it's all about relationships. I've never tried it with creativity. And I'm going to try it now. Going to see what what comes out of it. I love music, it really takes me to a different world. So when I am whenever I am doing something, music is always in the background. And it's not just, I don't categorize music into a language that I knew I could be listened to something Italian, bollywood, Hindustani classic Bengali, English, French, it's just I don't understand it, but just the tone and the voice and the feeling it just evokes an emotion and I'm very fond of music and words. Beautiful words. I love birds. We just transplanted me and I keep those those kinds of things always helped me in different ways. It just be a fan. I love smells. I love candles. And you know so so those things are just anything tactile and sensual. Or you know, something that just jolts you in some way in these kinds of things always helps when you talk about creativity. Yeah, those I always put my candles on put my music on. And you know, wash my hands with a super put my feet I all I love fragrance. So I am dosed in aftershave. And ladies perfume a lovely despair from I don't care. I love it. Yeah. So I always have to just work for me, so that that's my environment, even when I'm cooking, you know, so those things like the splatter of mustard seeds, you know, the small sounds just bizarre small little thing, which you might not even notice, when making a cup of tea, that crackling noise when the tea comes out of the strainer, or you know the smell of ginger or you know the coffee when you're roasting coffee. It's just bizarre things fluttering of the oil in the pan. So those kind of things just make me happy. And that's how I prepare myself creatively. So if I knew I want to work on something, I prepare myself a lovely meal, Baker bread. It's just a bizarre, the most bizarre things, but it's really important, small story is that the moral of the story is that if you want to be creative, and you are thinking, I don't have inspiration, I don't have a muse, there's an artist blog, etc. You just have to fall in love with what you do. And you have to fall in love with creativity. And then everything, every little thing that you've not been paying attention to, that surrounds you is going to inspire you and tickle you in some way. Yeah, I think you can't put a time frame you can't say okay, today I'm going to sit down, I'm going to create this I'm going to write a book or I'm gonna, you know, you can't, it just doesn't happen because you can't control creativity, creativity can be controlled. Remember, it's an energy. You can't just say Come to me, it'll come to you when it wants to. Because you are not controlling it, it is controlling you. So it's just creating that space, making creativity know that you're always welcome. I love you, I'll always be there for you. And I'm going to use it use you in a way and I'm going to show you to the world because you need to be shared. It's letting that energy know that energy is always welcomed, and creating space for that energetic come. Because the moment you try to empower creativity, like overpower creativity, it'll go away. Again, I'm trying to say that creativity is the person almost giving it a personality, but I in my mind and head I think it has, because there are so many times and I've almost noticed how creativity has taken control of my life. It comes and goes as it pleases. It does what it wants. And I can't control that. But it's always welcome. It's quite interesting because this is the probably the only thing where we would be different. So far of all the things you've said, because I felt or maybe I just didn't know how to create the environment for it as well as you do. But I realized when I stopped carving out time, every day to create something like pushing myself like nope, this is the time I'm going to set a blank piece of pen and paper. I'm going to either write something, create something, paint something, draw something or a photo something when I stopped doing that I actually stopped doing that. And so for me a practice is really important to keep things fresh. But I'm very intrigued by this idea of always saying that, hey, creativity, you're welcome. And the environment is conducive. And it's, it's welcome all the time. So you're not feeling the kind of pressure you have to do something because you know that when it's ready, and when you're ready, it will come with See, I can look at it that way. For me, I'm creative all the time. I'll give you an example. Just now when I'm looking at you. I can see in your background, you've got three blackish, brownish paintings, and you've got an orange terracotta pot there. Now yesterday I've been I've been working on some fabric and I was looking at color combination. I've been noticing the terracotta with black and in my mind by Steven talking to you, I was thinking you know what that color combination really works with a tinge of green from your coffee. And in my head, I have already created that. I when I speak to the Dyer later today, I'm going to play with those colors. So I'm inspired, whilst I'm living my life talking to you through your background. And that's because creativity has come to me. So you are creative all the time, because you love it so much that your life if you love photography, you might be making, you know, whatever on your stove, and your overshadow life on your kitchen cabinets, my reflection, and you think oh my god, that looks lovely, I need to create that reflection, or you might be boiling tea, and like I was boiling tea, and I noticed the the color of tea changes in different minutes, depending on how much you boil. And I found out the color that I really liked. And that was creative color because I got a T rose color for a fabric. So you know, creativity is everywhere. Like just now I found I was creative while talking to you looking at your background with the terracotta port on the right hand side. So that's given me so you know, that's that's just an example of how I because I have so much you know, it's constantly there. I never kind of sit and say, Oh, I have to practice this. Because for me, I'm practicing it every single moment of my you know, my waking hours and practicing it now talking to you. You know, I was practicing it when I was sleeping because I was dreaming about it. I live and breathe creativity. I have kind of liberated myself from the pressure of creating a routine. Because if you create a routine out of it, I feel you create yourself a job and it becomes overwhelming. When you love it so much like breathing, then it's not, you know, you don't have to think about it totally, no, absolutely agree with you, 100% for me, but if I don't create, it just becomes a jumbled mess in my head. I have to get it out of me. But I am loving that combination, too. That's a good observation. Listen, because I was thinking when black and red, green, yellow are all done before but the beautiful terracotta board you got there works for me with the green on your cookie. I don't know whether you've planted that, thinking about it, or it just happened, but it works. Finally, I would love to know how then with all that you've said, you know, numbers on social media is not something you're looking at, you're creating everything that speaks to your heart, and that makes you feel and moves you how then do you define success both as a creative and as an entrepreneur success. That's an interesting word. It's so subjective. For me, success is the feeling of contentment, peace, and fulfillment. That to me success. It's not about validation. It's not about a precision. It's about how I feel within myself, both for my life and my achievements. If I feel content, if I feel fulfilled, if I feel satisfied, that means I'm being successful, it doesn't matter if I have a car or if I have, you know, houses or all those things are not successful because you could be a star bollywood actress, but if you're not happy and peace, are you really successful? No, you couldn't be a person who is just selling handmade cakes in a stall. When you come back home every day and you're happy and you creating this cake in the morning going back with a smile, and you know, you're happy you're successful. So that to me, that's how I define success. Success is a feeling it is an energy again, I think people always say success is about achievement. I don't think that that is something that the second half of 2020 taught me personally. So I come from a low middle class family in India and for me, success was achievement success was having savings and money and the financial goals was very much part of success. I did have a wishy washy definition of success that I now believe is not wishy washy is actually everything like you're saying, but I felt it was wishy washy But really it is a financial goals. But what I realized in the second half of 2020 was no matter how much our business earns, and no matter how much we grow financially or etc, the thing that was the why behind our business, and the thing that is always going to feel it, the thing that is going to one day make it big is are we enjoying what we're doing? Are we 100% in it for, for it, rather than anything else? And it was such a beautiful mirror to see one day, you know, it's just it dawned on me and it was fantastic that no, that wishy washy thing that I kept repeating to myself was actually not wishy washy, it was the actual meaning of success, and which is what you said, having peace within yourself and the happiness and because in the end, that's what's going to increase the number of years you live on the surface and how healthy Lee you live those years. Don't get me wrong, we all I mean, like my six definition of success has changed over the years. But I would be lying if I said that. It wasn't ingrained in me that I had to get a job make a life for myself, you know, do this do that aren't that much of money, because that's how we were told that's what I was taught as a child was successful. It's only when I started understanding what life was about in the last seven, eight years that I have craved that definition of success. You mentioned a very good point that about intent. And I think it's extremely important in life for all of us, be it in life personal reasons, or whatever we create at our work is to figure out what is the intent of what we are doing, what are we trying to achieve? So I know through my creativity, it wasn't just about making clothes, my intent, my core intent, my aim, my ethos was to tell my story. And I was clear about that. If you're not clear of why you're doing it, then you're just kind of floating about without an aim. And that doesn't get us anywhere. It is so true. The first four years of our business, we didn't go anywhere, like nowhere business wise, because when ever we did a business seminar or mentoring and the person asked us, what's your aim, but didn't did inside of us thinking to get more bookings? Like I just want to get more bookings. That's the point. Like I want to leave my nine to five, can I please get more bookings? I remember we got so burnt out in that process, because obviously there the intent the why wasn't there and we were just chasing like this financial goal. Ben and I both decided we're going to take a break, we're going to travel. And one of those trips, we both looked at each other. And he said, You know, this is a long bus journey. Should we do that? Why question now? And the entire journey, we kept asking why want to earn money? But why? Because I want to then live my life. What's that life? Like? We kept asking questions more and more and more to when we got to the crux of the answer. And that answer then became a brand. And that then without the need of spending money on marketing without doing anything else became an overnight thing. For us the road to success was long. But when we understood our why when we understood the reason behind why we putting this effort and time and energy into it, it just became so crystal clear to the people we wanted to reach. Because those were the people we wanted to really help. We wanted to help people experience adventure. And for it to be for everyone. You know, especially in our busy lives, when we miss the time to plan and the time to go out with somebody we love and actually experience the mountains, the valleys and the waterfalls, as they are rather than, hey, let's have a photo shoot. We just wanted to create that experience for other people because we were experiencing it. And the moment that was clear for us. It just it blossomed. So the intent is so important in defining success that way is important because then everything else that you were worried about flows into the right direction. If you're listening to this podcast and you feel you've lost the magic, well, one of the simple tricks I do is to go lie down on the grass outside at night and watch the stars and the magical return and you will remember what a tiny part of this universe you are and how much magic is going around you and how much of that magic resides in you because we are all Stardust, and it will just bring everything back into perspective. Now the final question that we're going to ask everyone before they leave the podcast is what is a myth about creativity that you hear often that you would like to bust? That only few people are creative. Not everybody can be creative. I think that's a stupid thing to say. Because everyone is creative in their own right, your medium, or the channel you choose to express your creativity might be different But we all are born with the creative genius inside. So we just need to find it. You could be a mathematician, you could be a scientist, you could be a cook, you could be a painter, you could be a photographer, you could be a designer, you could be a cleaner, you could be anything. Creativity is just the way of doing things in a way that works for you. Yay, that is so awesome. Because that literally is the theme of our podcast. So that's awesome. So we've come to the final section of our podcast, which is three rapid fire questions. Okay, brace yourself. Let's start. Okay, so the first one morning or a night person? Morning? Uh huh. I would not have guessed that. What is the best compliment you have ever received? The best that you can remember right now I'm sure you received so many compliments. My best compliment is they said I've got a very loving smile. Now. That is amazing. And last, what is your best tip for making this world a better place? Just be kind I think we forget we are so unkind to each other. Just be kind, kind. Now you treat people smile at them. If need be, just pat them on the shoulder, let them know that you know it be all fine. Sometimes it's just you know, when you walk into the street, sometimes someone smiles at you and you just feel good. I'm not even talking about money or things. I'm just talking about being kind in your actions, especially this fantastic. I use Thank you for taking this time to talk with me. I said oh, it's just gonna take one hour and I've taken two hours of your precious time. Such a pleasure. Thank you to you and Ben for you know, appreciating what I do and thinking that I'm worthy enough to be a part of this beautiful journey of yours and I'm glad I could be of help and I've thoroughly enjoyed myself and and I wish you both all the very best you all are doing something which is going to help a lot of people and I hope you will go from strength to strength and thank you ever so much. And I know you're waiting for your newborn to come and I'm sure you will be wonderful parents wish you all the best. And I hope 2021 brings you lots of joy and happiness in good health I wish you both the very best Thank you so much. Thank you I use and how can people find you? You can find me on Instagram and Pinterest they don't have a website but I live my life on Instagram so you'll find me there I used thank you so much once again for this opportunity and we hope to see you on this podcast very soon. So there you have it. If you love color and real humans like his 250,000 plus fans do you can follow us on Instagram at designer I use kg well that's designer a YU is HKEJRIWAL or seek him out at is kg well.com That's right he totally just launched his website. There you'll find everything you need to know about opkg well design and a we not decision or an AI in his intro line. Hello beautiful people. Now make sure you mash whatever button you need to mash to subscribe to the creative myth because next time said anna and i are back talking to each other again. This time, we will be diving headfirst into a topic dear to our hearts and that is creativity and beer. Yep, the fear is real in the creative realm and we'll be dishing out ways you can accept it and defeat it so you can become your very best creative self. But till then, stay read. Stay tuned and be creative.